Government, Church Should Get Out Of Bedroom

re 26, that might be the model they are working towards now....but orginally the HHS was making it a mandate on all....even still, I don't think it's right for the Catholic Church as an employer being forced by the Govt to purchase something they disagree with.  

Can you provide us with the 28 different state laws that mandate such?  Or at least one?  Even then, those state laws, if they are as you suggest....they might very well be unConstitutional as well and just never challeged.  Furthermore, an individual Catholic school, say Notre Dame, might say what the heck and offer an insurance provider that covers it...again that's not the same as a blanket law, making it illegal not to.  

and while European nations provide universal healthcare...that's not the same as a Govt mandating a Church they have to.  Big difference.  

RE 26: The ones I've heard speaking out rather strongly are the bishops, not Fox news.  I'm not Catholic, but I'm rooting for them.  There's something decidely American about speaking out for freedom of religion.  The point of such freedoms is that, while you may not agree, they still get to have their beliefs, and the government shouldn't be able to force them violate their consciences.  It's not like they are stopping women from getting their birth control, they just want no part of it, which is something the administration needs to respect.

Re #21

I am talking about the fact that 28 states already have the birth control requirement and they served as the model Obama was following.  This requirement has and would not hold churches and religious organizations responsible for providing health care to cover birth control if it is against their beliefs.  Their affiliates that hire people of many differnt faiths--that's a differnt story.  And that's how more than half of the states have been handling the issue.

Here is a link to information that came out close to when this all started:  http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/05/omalley-too-much-hyperventilating-over-contraception-controversy/

Churches and religious organizations are not required to provide birth control, but hospitals and universities with religious affiliation, for example, are and are already doing so.  They have been for quite some time.

I think our Fox friends have created a mountain out of this for the propose of making Obama look bad.  The fact that he gave a year after the requirement goes into effect for organizations to work it out indicates to me that he was not trying to cram it down anyone's throat.  Of course, when the right-wing nuts on Fox put the story out, it caused a panic.  This is a tempest in a teapot, and everyone knows that now.

RE 20:  A "Real" would have himself "neutered", as I did at my expense, so that my wife and I can do as we please.  "Real" men don't put women in a position where they have to make the Abortion Decision in the first place.  Time for you to "Man Up" and become a  show just how caring you are!

Re: 23 - I'm sorry... what was I thinking... :)

Re 22:  Come now, Welder.  Obama hath settled all these things and others with his oft repeated decree, "It's the right thing to do."  As he is the purveyor of all things right and good, who are we to question?

Zero doesn't have the authority to dictate that churches or insurance companies do anything.

He's a last term executive in charge of one branch of gubmint.

He can hope all he wants, but the Constitution trumps his authority to implement his particular vision of change.

Thankfully... :)

it never required a church to provide birth control?  they were working things out?  the admin, though the HHS came out and said they had to...only after the press release and outrage did the admin try to make changes.  

i don't know of any state that has forced the Catholic Church or any religous organization they had to provide birth control or for that matter force them to do anything they morally and fundamentally disagreed with.  can you list the states?

What Obama proposed was already in place in more than half the states, and it never required a church or place of worship to cover workers for birth control.  So let's get the facts straight.  And those involved in this issue are working things out pretty well without having to deny people birth control if they want it.

For those men who keep talking about tissues and trash cans, I can only imagine what you think of women and sex.  Do you ever have sex for any other reason than procreation?  Or do you feel every sperm is sacred and every egg must have its day? 

If so, then good luck trying to convince today's youth to abstain from sex, unless they are planning on having a baby.



 

re 18 agreed....Obama has decided that the Constitution is meaningless and ignored that clause. If you really feel the way you do about seperation of church and state then you will have to help vote him out of office. 

and the quote is "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christans.  They are so unlike your Christ" 

The battle cry prior to the American Revolution....no taxation without representation. The battle cry for today to churches .....no representation without taxation.
Freedom of religion.....how about Freedom from religion?
Gandhi.....I like your Jesus but I don't like your Christians.
What ever happened to seperation of church and state?

Hey Jude...are you a complete idiot, or just partial?

Doesn't a Church decide what's best for itself?

Geez, we've got a bunch of ignorant people in our community.

I would never presume to try and understand why a person would get an abortion or feel so desperate and put a baby in a trash can or the many other horrendous stories one can read on the disposal of an unwanted child.  What I try to consider is that it took two people to make that child.  Yet if the father does not want to take responsibility for his part of the childs life and the mother cannot do it alone she is the horrible one for having the abortion. And if she chooses to have the child and either the mother or father become the single parent odds are then they will need somekind of government assistance, be it wic, or whatever, and still they are criminalized. 

Of course in an ideal world we would all go to college, then get a high paying job, then save money, then get married, then save more money, then have children.  And we could all be perfect and make exactly the right decisions at exactly the right time and no one would ever ever make a mistake and no one else would ever ever have to pay for it. 

Ha!! That is not the world we live in.  We are human and we make mistakes and we mess up and sometimes we hurt people.

And yes I do think that if a company offers health insurance to its employees then birth control should be paid for the same way any other prescription would be paid for - regardless of the company's religous affiliation.  If you cannot discriminate on the people you hire then you should not discriminate on this either - and leave it up to the person as to whether or not they use birth control.  It is a private decision between a person and their faith.

Jude no one is forcing you to be a Catholic,  The Govt however is forcing the Catholic church to do something they fundamentally disagree with....and that my friend is the assault on individual freedom....if you really believe in it as you stated then i hope you'll do the right thing in Nov and help end the Obama admin. 

Regarding "convienience" abortions:  This is in the news just today, and yes, it happens in the US as well.  (hope the link works!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9099511/Abortion-investigation-doctors-filmed-agreeing-illegal-abortions-no-questions-asked.html

Re 12: Strange, I tried it and it worked for me.  Here's another attempt at the link since I agree, it's a good piece :)  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-safe-legal-rare-illusion.html

Re 11: That was a good and fair piece, wb, but I had to log in an search for it; your link didn't work for me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-safe-legal-rare-illusion.html?_r=4

"What’s intuitive isn’t always true, and if social conservatives haven’t figured out how to make all good things go together in post-sexual-revolution America, neither have social liberals."

Re 9:  It is probably better if somebodydoesn't want to get "Caught" to have an abortion.  After all, since they think no more of the life they created than to simply discard it, they would probably be an "Abortion" of a parent. Since they are totally unwilling to accept responsibility for their own personal actions, so they toss it out with the Garbage.

I've never heard a woman who made a choice to have an abortion call it a "convenience."  People who call it a convenience apparently want to make sure women stay pregnant to get caught and punished.  Do they want them to get "caught" for being pregnant?  To call it a convenience is like saying women are trying to get away with something.  Why are some people so concerned about seeing women get "caught"?  Makes me wonder.  Is that why our legislators want to punish women seeking abortions?  Do they even know this is what motivates their proposals?  What kind of punishment do men get when they get a woman pregnant?  Seems to me, with all things considered, an abortion is more of a convenience for the man than it is for the woman.  Maybe that's why so many men use that word "convenience."  I really don't think it is ever a convenience for a woman. 

Re: 7 - We didn't get to this sorry state of affairs overnight; it's going to take some time to make convenience abortions less acceptable... and convenient.

And I believe Jude is a lady.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/us/governor-of-virginia-calls-for-changes-in-abortion-bill.html?_r=1

I see McDonnell is already backing down on the VA abortion bill. 

Sure, keep the government out of the bedroom.  But if you don't like the Catholic church's stance on birth control, then find another church.  It's not like they have been secretive about their stance on the matter.

Someone better slip into the bedroom of the Hispantic families that I see in Harisonburg and give the man a condom, most supposly man & wife have several toddlers following them and most are Catholic. They are here because they cannot find work in their countries to feed these toddlers. The Catholic organization better wake up and smeEl the ROSES. The answer is not abortion, but birth control.Or Jude's going to have a lot of mouths to feed. TAXES..

Did I miss something?  Where did the Catholic Church tell Jude he had to do anything?   

I agree, neither the church nor the gubmint should be paying for an individual's birth control; or trying to dictate that someone else pick up the tab.

After all, it's a private matter and it should be financed with private funds, just like convenience abortions...

Hey Remember 911, like Jude said, it's their bussiness, not yours. Get it?

Hey Jude:  If all a man considers a woman to be nothing but a Kleenex to deposit his DNA into and a woman allows herself to be used as that Kleenex and then throws that Kleenex into the trash, it doesn't have a lot of good to say about the Moral Character of either of them.  They certianly are doing nothing for the good of themselves, the Community, or the Nation!!